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Re: nature as analogy



Jack, thanks so much for the references. I think in particular I'd like to look at Lakoff's books and cite that as some theory precedent.

OK, I'm being pushed farther out on the limb. What does "works better" mean? I dropped the idea of efficiency because it has quantitative definitions and I didn't mean that. "Better" in evolution is almost always equated with gene pool success of some form. I don't mean that. I have to go back to my central thesis, which I believe comes out of RR's work, that formal systems can provide functional specifications (decoding) and are as real as material structures in nature. Call them "functions," overlooking the confusion between this concept of a function and the mechanistic idea of processes or the mathematical idea of a function, which is actually a transformation. By function here, i mean purpose. Now, I'm open to accusation of being teleological, but it need not be so except in the extrapolation of an internally defined function to larger systems, where they then appear to be general. To me, function results from one system taking up a role in another system. Once it does that, it has a "function" in the other system. So the heart has a function of pumping blood in the human body. A river has a function of transporting water on a landscape, etc. (and the landscape has a function of channeling the water - a modeling relationship between landscape and river). So, it need not even be biological. However, when functions become related within an organism that has significant "efficient closure," Aristotle's 2nd causal/explanatory level, then functions look like purpose, and they are indeed purpose when cognized as such (by means I don't know). The impression of teleology is because of the anticipatory nature of systems that close around the relationship between functions and structues in some important way to the definition of the new system. Evolution does this, even operates on this principle, so evolution is very anticipatory despite the mechanisms of selection which are retrospective.

Now that't a lot of wind to get to your question of what I mean by "works better." I mean fulfills a function. In the runner example it is leaping over the ravine. One accomplishes this task better by use of analogs than could be done resorting to quantitative models and calculation, which would land you in the river or with a broken leg as you missed the rock on the other side. Athletes know this very well from training. If they can stop their mind from figuring and calculating and just "be" part of the motion, they will perform flawlessly, but one analytical thought enters and the performance is shot - at least for some sports that don't involve numbers. It has to be "felt" not produced from thinking. Musicians also loose themselves in the music and then discover capabilities they could not have forced by thinking about it. the thinking mind seems to like quantities because that is what is presented to it, but it seems to be rather bad for actually doing anything besides think. Now, I'm sure there is a 'function" for thinking, in which a new behavior can be invented, and then practised until it becomes analogical. All the trials and errors provide the analogs. James Mark Baldwin was onto this, but hardly anybody paid attention to him until very recently.

Anyway, I'm sure that introduces more questions than it answers, but it is what I mean by "works better."

Cheers,
John

Jack Park wrote:

Thank you, John!

Especially for the name Glantz [1] & [2]. Here's why. For a zillion
years (it seems), I've been following the writings of Iben Browning
(_Climate and the affairs of men_) which was based on papers he wrote
for the CIA while at Sandia Labs and later wordsmithed into the book
by Nels Winkless after the papers became unclassified. Iben took all
the math he could find and computed a long history of tidal stress.
After he put a small white noise wash on that data, a signal regarding
major volcanic events and major geosocial events in humanity stood
out. I am now beginning to find out that more and more people are
realizing that climatology plays a larger role in the affairs of
humankind than once thought, certainly more than those history books
we were spoon fed in highschool would have us believe.

Returning control to your tv, I'm back to how it is that organisms
might reason by analogy. Were I blessed with Judith's memory, I'd
probably be able to point to something that RR wrote about it, but I
can't.  In computing, one of the more important theories on reasoning
by analogy comes from Dedre Gentner, with her "structure mapping
engine." The notion of analogy, again, in computing, is closer to the
notion of structural similarity, where structure, in this case, refers
to the shape, perhaps the topology of some relationally-represented
information. Graphs. That's where Rashevsky started: graph theory was
going to be able to let him describe the canonical organism. Graph
theory was weak, as he found out; he then proceeded to invent
"organismic set theory", and RR later came along with category theory,
which, at that time, was not an ancient methodology in its own right.
The structure of graphs plays to the notion of analogy. That's what
Dedre Gentner says. She's not alone in taking that approach. In this
particular case, if you substitute the word "relationships" for the
word "structure", you're pretty much back to relational biology.
Structure is a word used by CS jockeys, but, I think in this case, it
means the shape of a relationship graph.

One wonders how it is that the "neural networks" of our brains do
analogy. An interesting "framework" is hypothesized and described in
Jeff (Palm Pilot) Hawkins' book _On Intelligence_, where his primary
focus is on the nature of  canonical patterns, recognition elements
which can spot your grandmother, no matter which way you view her.
Might be something in there. Who can say? That idea bloomed, then
faded, in artificial intelligence circles many years back. George
Lakoff takes things further: metaphors are the canonical means by
which we reason. See _Metaphors We Live By_ and _Philosophy In The
Flesh_.

I'm out of ideas. What means "works better"?
Cheers,
Jack
[1] http://www.ccb.ucar.edu/glantz/
[2] http://www.ccb.ucar.edu/cxa/index.html

On 12/27/05, John <***> wrote:


Thanks Jack,

You make a good point. Perhaps the word 'efficient' should not be used
because of these implications.

What I really mean is that it works better than it would if there were
in fact some internal accounting of actual numbers - i.e., a process
facilitated by calculation. I think what is going on is processes
facilitated by analogy. Its the comparison between reasoning
quantiatively and acting on the result, vs. reasoning by analogy and
acting on the result. There is a really great environmental/social
scientist I know, Mickey Glantz, who has proposed "reasoning by analogy"
for environmental and ecosystem management. It has a lot of merit and
points out the shortcomings of our propensity to reason analytically and
quantitatively. I think he's right about management, and it got me
thinking that pehaps this is exactly what nature does too. I'd love to
find some references saying so. I get these ideas that seem so right to
me, and I want to include it in a paper, but now I'm trying ot be
rigorous and I have to ask what support the idea really has. On the
other hand, I can't think of any evidence supporting the idea that
organisms use some kind of internal calculation in their processes - is
there any?

John

Jack Park wrote:



John,

My 0.0012 EUROs: I like the closing sentence, but it's not at all
clear to me that a much more accurate mechanism is at work when a
runner jumps a ravine, or that nature is necessarily efficent in
transfering information. I say that while carrying the same
assumptions many have that evolutionary pressure would drive
biological systems to be as efficient as possible; indeed who would
have thunk to place a sewage disposal system in the same location as a
playground? Right? But, what about the spread of cytokines when under,
say, viral attack? Is that necessarily efficient? Accidentally
efficient? Efficient at all? What means efficient? On the surface, it
seems efficient given that it works, but consider this (numbers I
learnt when chasing a Leukemia germ): when you come under attack,
there is a process whereby your lymphatic system responds by dumping a
massive dose of white cells into the blood stream. A CBC done on
someone who just discovered an infection might show 20 to 30 thousand
whites per dl; way more than the usual 4 to 5 thousand. Is that
efficient? It would seem to be so to the extent that it often works.
What means efficient?

I'm out of EUROs now.
Cheers and happy new year!
Jack

On 12/27/05, John <***> wrote:




Hi,

I'm drafting a paper for a conference and I want to say something about
the way information is used in nature without getting too into it, since
the paper is ultimately about information system design.

Here's a paragraph I wrote. What I would like to know from my esteemed
colleagues, is if the statements here are supported well enough in the
literature for me to just say this and move on, or am I being wierd
again by suggesting that nature operates on mimicry and analogy??? If
someone would like to contribute a seminal reference I would appreciate
it. I'm not sure RR addresses this directly in his mimicry paper - its
been a while since I read that, but I'm betting it should be referenced.

Title: Information as Communication

The human body functions on the transfer of information between critical
components. It does this seamlessly and efficiently. Information storage
is a part of its use and all indications are that natural biological
information is relational and analogical, not quantitative or
analytical. This can be imagined in an example of a runner. On reaching
a ravine the runner quickly leaps across and lands accurately on the
other bank, continuing to run without missing a stride. If asked later
to look at the ravine and estimate its width, he may guess within a foot
or two. Clearly, a much more accurate process was available to the
runner naturally in the moment of need. It seems unlikely that a more
accurate quantitative capability would exist out of reach of the
conscious mind. It is more likely that the actions are determined
mimetically, by analogy to past experience, and that this is a faster
and more accurate process for anticipation in complex systems.


Thanks for your comments, John Kineman