Re: Silly questions?

[John M <***>]

Judith: in defense of Jerry (he does not need it
though) - 
Auto-mobile really means moving by itself. It was the
misnomer of the cusp-people 19-20th c. when they saw
that a coach runs away from the horses by itself. It
never meant 'moving by people'. 
And as long as I do not get an acceptable (!)
DEFINITION  of 'living' (beyond the reductionistic
model 'biology') I cannot exclude "another" machine
from anticipation - adorning with this epitheton only
the 'biologic machine' within the model 'bio'. I hold
that the reductionist science 'bio' does not include a
natural system beyond the boundaries and so is prone
to be called a limited model. Anticipation? I may be
wrong again, but I understand this term similarly
beyond the limitations of a model, meaning something
(I do not pretend to identify RR's term better than he
did) like:
having the features for activity (change) not yet
realized and so prepared to such activity. This is not
a 'humanizable' factor and a car may be assigned such
potential as well. Besides: Jerry did not speak about
a car, he definitely spoke about features "moving by
themselves" e.g. humans or in case of cut models: a
machine. 
(Btw I am working on identifying the generally held
concept of a human (a person) as but a limited model,
a machine, vs the unlimited view of a node (attractor)
of the unlimited interconnective effects with some
falling within this 'view's observational aspects more
than others. This "more than others" is the problem.
Bodily: the skin, mentally: the self are both
interconnected (accepting and responding) with more
than applicable in our redux scientific terms.) 

John M

--- Judith Rosen <***> wrote:

> Jerry Zhu wrote: Why not themselves antificipate?
> Second law operates
> > that is the ever increase of entropy.  Automoble
> means
> > self movable objects that could be an automobile
> or an
> > animal.  Obviously they both anticipate.
> 
> Jerry; either you have some really unique
> definitions of anticipation 
> or you are very much at odds with Robert Rosen's
> work. Come to think of 
> it, you have a really unique definition of
> "self-movable object" too. I 
> would say that automobiles are "human-movable
> objects" but they don't 
> do anything by themselves. They are designed for
> interaction. Humans 
> are the anticipatory system in the equation. Cars
> are simple systems.
> 
> Judith
> 
> 
> Web address: http://www.rosen-enterprises.com
> BioTheory: An electronic journal of general science
> based on the 
> Relational (Rosennean) Complexity Paradigm
> On Oct 9, 2005, at 3:24 PM, Jerry Zhu wrote:
> 
> > --- David Macy <***> wrote:
> >
> >>> Yo no soy un poeta, Rodrigo!  Soy demasiado
> tanto.
> >>
> >> Jerry Zhu wrote: Does an automoble anticipate?
> >>
> >> Did you ask this of the void?  Was it rhetorical?
> >> We could just talk about questions!!!  I would
> say
> >> that automobiles are built in anticipation, but
> of
> >> course they themselves do not anticipate.
> >
> > Why not themselves antificipate? Second law
> operates
> > that is the ever increase of entropy.  Automoble
> means
> > self movable objects that could be an automobile
> or an
> > animal.  Obviously they both anticipate.
> >
> > Jerry
> >
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