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Re: Gaia, splicing mixotrophs

Hi Dan,

Well, I think these are two different things; We were talking about a deliberate genetic engineering kind of splicing. I think you're referring to what has happened via evolution to date. I think you have a good point. I've often wondered why plants so rarely seem to be parasitic or pathogenic to other species besides plants. They can be toxic as hell but that is usually only if we molest them in some way.

On the other hand, there are more than just a handful of non-plant organisms which have incorporated chloroplasts or cells bearing chloroplasts into their own physiology in the same sort of symbiotic arrangement that all plants actually represent by virtue of having these organelles inside each cell (in spite of their different DNA). After researching chloroplasts (and the other plastids inside these cells), I tend to believe that plants aren't really autotrophs; it's the chloroplasts which photosynthesize. Even if we take plants as a single, photosynthetic organism (which they have become at this point; unable to survive fractionation)-- they aren't "just" autotrophs; when the sun goes down, they respire, just like we do. They take in oxygen and give off CO2.

You're right that this kind of arrangement hasn't become widespread and yet it seems like a serious survival benefit would be attached. However, just because living systems are the way they are right now, that doesn't mean they are going to stay this way, does it? Evolution is a continuing process. Perhaps this kind of combination is the beginning of a new trend.

As far as the genetic engineering version, as a boon to space exploration... I don't think humanity is ready to even consider this kind of experimentation with our own genome. Look at all the fuss over stem cell research.

Judith
Web address: http://www.rosen-enterprises.com
BioTheory: An electronic journal of general science based on the Relational (Rosennean) Complexity Paradigm
On Sep 7, 2005, at 4:16 PM, Dan Fiscus wrote:

Ya'll,

Re: your ideas below of splicing chloroplasts into humans...

This would not likely work from the perspective I take that
community-ecosystem is required and of founding, creative
power, not merely of emergent, later, higher order or
assemblage or even symbiosis type power. If it were
functionally successful for life over eons to have autotrophs
and heterotrophs in the same body, don't you think that we'd
see that combo everywhere? The fact that we do not, that this
occurence is rare (some dinoflagellates and others can be
either auto- or heterotrophs depending on needs) is a big
hint and clue that the relation between these two crucial forms
is not only one of necessary, obligate interdependence (no
organisms can go it alone, no systems are known to exist with
only one type of trophy, auto- or hetero-, all systems so far
have both). Beyond necessity of interdependence also seems
the necessity of *relating through the medium of the
environment*. The space and time gaps are not accidental, but
functional - in that functional use of space is the enfoldment of
the environment as a functional, active, participatory role in life
in its community-ecosystem form.

The same logic applies to males and females, and perhaps to
right-brain and left-brain dominance.

Some thoughts...

Dan

Judith Rosen wrote:

David Macy wrote: I agree with you that this will probably entail
that we either
bring some of our native environment (including plants and
animals) with us,
or that we change ourselves so that we are adapted to these
places. I can't
see, for instance, any reason why we are precluded from developing
the
technology to become autotrophs (chemotrophs for instance).


What an interesting thought! Perhaps we could replicate the inclusion of chloroplasts into plant cells and become self-sufficient little photosynthetic factories, ourselves. We'd be green, though. But hey; it works for Kermit, so it should work for us, too.

Judith