[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next]   [Date Index] [Thread Index] [Author Index

Re: Why does the universe exist?



Hi Steve,
 
Sorry to be out of touch; I missed your post so I'm glad you brought it up again.
 
I took a look at the article on John Wheeler at http://home.pacbell.net/claydale/wheelerdisc.htm. There was one line in it that really screamed! It was the perfect summation of so many of the discussions we have had on this list and also the conclusion of my father's scientific analysis of contemporary science: "The outcome of the experiment depends on what the physicists try to measure..." And, since they're still chasing "the particles" they will miss the answers to their questions unless the questions are directly about the particles, themselves. Even then, they may not learn anything general about particles, but only limited information pertaining to those particular particles (... and how many pickled peppers did Peter Piper pick?) Further; how will they know what is general and what is not?
 
My father didn't subscribe to the "Big Bang" theory. He thought that was pretty stupid. It's such a linear, human view to think of beginnings, endings, inside of, outside of, before, after, etc. But the question you are asking is "Why?" not "How?" right? My father tended to answer questions like "Why does the universe exist?" with "How should I know?" You had to get specific and say, "Why do YOU think the universe exists?" He would then say, "Ah, well that's a completely different question. And my answer to that may not have anything relevant to teach you about the universe. As long as you understand that, I'll tell you." Once he got reassurance, he'd nod and say, "OK, then. Well... I don't know why the universe exists," and break out into a grin as I was swatting at him with my magazine.
 
It's the sort of question that cannot be evaluated scientifically at the current time. The best answer that doesn't rely on religious, philosophical, or otherwise unsupported belief structures would probably be "The universe exists because it is entailed." But to try and establish what the entailments might be would be impossible to do in any kind of scientific manner; we don't even know what "the universe" IS,  y'know what I mean? We can make educated guesses about some of the "ingredients" like space and time, but whatever we are perceiving in the universe is going to be the way it is because of the way the universe is organized. So it goes back to chlorine and sodium, again. If the universe were a salt molecule, how would we know what various aspects of the universe would be like if they were separated from all other aspects? How could we guess the nature of chlorine if our experience of the universe was salt? So, what would "time" be like, say, if we could experience it detached from everything else? It might be unrecognizable.
 
It's also not likely to be useful to have that information, really. If the universe were a salt molecule, the nature of chlorine by itself is not relevant. We're better off concentrating on learning how the universe works and why. This we can find out. One of the basic laws of this universe is apparently that everything is entailed and the entailments are consistent. We know this from studying causality. My father also believed that interactive relational causality is the entailed nature of this universe. We can do a lot with that, science-wise, combined with the power of our minds. But, one thing he was able to conclude from his study of complex systems and complexity in general is that no matter how much we learn about how the universe works, it will never explain why or how the universe came to exist. You can't derive either of those categories of information from the other category.
 
Judith
 
 
----- Original Message -----
To: ***
Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 12:09 AM
Subject: Re: [ROSEN] Why does the universe exist?

Judith,

Did Robert Rosen ever share any speculations as why
the universe exists (vs. nothing at all) in the same
vein as the John Wheeler's article (posted below)?

Sorry to ask this again but I know you've been out of
town and I'm very curious if he expressed any opinions
on the matter and what he would say in an article
entitled "Why does anything at all exist?".

- Steve


--- Steve Johnson <***> wrote:

> I was reading this article on John Wheeler's
> thoughts
> as to why anything at all exists and I became
> curious
> about what RR's thoughts and speculations were on
> this
> subject.
>
> http://home.pacbell.net/claydale/wheelerdisc.htm
>
> I guess this is mostly a question for Judith. One
> thing I  find not very satisfying about physicists'
> speculations on this subject is that they inevitably
> start talking about quantum froth, the cloud of
> quantum possibility, curled dimensions that
> masqurade
> as particles etc.
>
> I don't want to make light of these answers but they
> just move the philosophical conundrum one step up
> the
> ladder of infinite regress. We try to explain the
> Universe and we answer that it exists because of
> quantum froth or big bang or curled dimensions or
> what
> not so we have to explain that and so on..
>
> It reminded me a lot of RR's writings about the need
> of stopping infinite regress in control and error
> detection problems, his analysis of Newtonian
> paradigm
> etc. So I was curious if he had any philosophical
> speculation on this subject.
>
> - Steve
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>




__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html