Re: Description of evolution, uroboros

[David Macy <***>]

Dan,

This is top notch, I think.

I agree with you.  I had a similar kind of struggle myself.  When I think of
Earth's original emergence or experimentally induced emergence I think of
community/ecosystem.  It is not -organism- that I think of in the
establishment of life (manifesting organisms) it is -organisms- that I think
of.

My guess, though I've not yet thoroughly investigated it, is that Robert
used the plural in the appropriate places.


David

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dan Fiscus" <***>
To: <***>
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: Description of evolution, uroboros


> Jamie,
>
> I found it, assuming you meant uroboros. This is a
> great symbol and metaphor! But it also reminds me
> of my single, ongoing beef/gripe/difference with
> Rosen. He talked of the unit of life as organism, but
> I see it better-depicted as community or ecosystem.
> As in his metabolism-repair model, and as in the
> uroboros, it is not the organism that eats itself and
> gives itself infinite (open-ended evolutionary) life.
> But it is the community that does this - when we add
> in that animals eat plants and plants in turn "eat"
> animals, we get repair of metabolism, repair of
> repair, and the infinite, unfractionable loop/cycle.
> Adding that plants also eat environment (are
> autotrophic, "self-feeders") we also have
> unfractionable integration of environment with life
> that adds with the repair of repair function.
>
> This difference may help with finding applications
> for Rosen's theory. His work may fit better with life in
> its community/ecosystem scale of organization than
> life's organismal aspects.
>
> Dan
>
> Dan Fiscus wrote:
> > Jamie,
> >
> > By public url for the Rosen list, do you mean the
> > archives? I think this page of Tim's is public and
> > gets to the list archives as well as list main page
> > and search option.
> >
> > http://www.panmere.com/rosen/mlist_archives.htm
> >
> > As for your comments...one question. What does
> > "urobos" mean, where you say:
> >
> > "Robt Rosen had a thesis about life dynamics and all
> > the different layers of organization inter-involved, that
> > essentially is the urobos, applied everywhere without
> > exception, including events and process-relations that
> > are/were present but just not yet discovered through
> > inquiry."
> >
> >
> > Dan
> >
> >