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Re: Next things

Dear John, K,

After having deleted your very personal message to Judith, sent by mistake also to all of us, I reflected on both the process and the spirit conveyed that message to all of us by mistake!
I felt that if we are dealing altogether with 'what life is?' why should we not share our personal problems as its integral parts. On the whole we may all learn sharing our joys and sorrows which in turn strengthen the relationships among all involved. We also understand better what keeps a living system (organization) as a whole, healthily functioning towards a common goal. This also reminded me that Howard was perhaps lost to this list owing to either lack of appreciation of his ideas on our side or his attitude resulting from his own frustration with us. In brief there was a crack in the relationship needing a repair rather than break it altogether. I can be cured and may be a good lesson to all of us in maintaining relationships alive and healthy. Otherwise both sides suffer one way or another, even not admitted.

Now turning to personal and family crisis, which may provide us useful topics to reflect on. I'll share my very recent personal crisis of high blood pressure. It is not a very new phenomenon but it was under a good control with some conventional medicine, but it unexpectedly jumped up with no apparent reason. I discussed the matter with an experienced doctor, who himself is also curing himself by taking certain pills, told me that we, physicians don't really know why this happens, but certainly in the functioning of the body something is going wrong owing to internal or external reasons and that is signal to take into account for further enquiry etc. He added, in any case we have to control it by medicine as otherwise it may cause a stroke. The lesson for me was that alright I should do what he says, it makes sense, but I must observe what is triggering this explosion which disturbs the relationships among the various parts of the body, with their healthy connectivity they keep the whole healthy. Only I can do it not the doctor, I said to myself as this pressure broke the balance stabilized in the functioning of the immune system (according my previous experiences). In my case, my diagnosis is a heavy mental work these months to meet several deadlines. How to reduce this work load still remains to be an issue for me to deal with.

This bodily signal for the non-functionality of the system as a whole is also similar to our relationships within the family and among friends. What goes wrong with the connectivity (relationship) we seem not to notice for a long time, if not ill started initially, or we ignore, which may in the end break this vital connectivity for good, if not noticed and cured much before etc. What went wrong or what you have not noticed or did not want to perceive what was going wrong in your personal case is perhaps an interesting research on the personal relationships, one-to-one or as a group. Most of the time our personal behaviors administered by rational rules (simple system approach) totally ignores experiential side of the human life, thus ignores the fact that it is a complex system, it needs emotional aspects to be fully incorporated. Sorry if I am preaching those who are more experts than I am in this field. As living persons we are all somewhat experts.

The above examples suggest to me that as Rosennean students we should look into this kind of close-to heart problems and find ways out by applying RR approach first to our own lives and then to building a healthily functioning network among us and maintain it so, at all cost. The cost will be our effort for insightful learning and loving and respecting each other. My immediate remedy is sharing not only our ideas, but also our emotions without hesitation and be nice and understanding to each other.

Any thought?

My best you and all,
Ayten


On Apr 14, 2005, at 2:55 AM, John Kineman wrote:

I'm sending this response only to change the subject line so it makes sense and doesn't refer to a deleted topic.

Looking forward to the discussion.

JK

Jerry Zhu wrote:

I wonder if Howard want to come back. We may send some
roses to get him back.


This month I have some intense preparation for the
next big thing and will have good discussion by then
when all the people are in place.

Jerry


--- John Kineman <***> wrote:

Sorry to hear Howard left. I wasn't watching the
interaction at that point.

I have about two and a half weeks of intensive work
to do, after which I
hope I can get back to working on our system ideas.
I will bring in a
new perspective from experiences in India which I am
currently writing
into several papers and a dissertation. Badly formed
ideas at present,
but perhaps discussion will help improve them.
JJK

Jerry Zhu wrote:


Maybe that the list being quite is because Pattee
left. Only reason I join this list is I saw Pattee
and learn Rosen from then.

Jerry



--- John M <***> wrote:




John, I did.
However: I am missing your posts not to be

deleted.

And also posts from
others. Do we have no topics to discuss?

John M
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Kineman" <***>
To: <***>
Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 12:27 PM
Subject: Re: Please delete previous message






Oops - please ignore and delete my previous very




personal message. I




accidently sent it to the list.

You are all my friends, so I do not mind so much




the error in




distribution. But because it involves personal




matters and other people




it would be wrong to keep it distributed. Please




delete it from your
inbox.




Thanks,
John

PS I hope to be back to the list soon.





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