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Re: Humans and nature



Tim was right on the mark in his assessment of how I was using the word "natural" as a description for "system" in my post. My wording was actually "naturally occurring system" which meant that these systems did not spontaneously self-organize and yet they were being used as models for systems which DID.
 
However, this discussion got me to thinking of the duality present in the potential use of the word "natural"...
 
My father's work tends to use the word "natural" to refer to any real system in the universe, as opposed to "formal" systems (models). "Let us suppose we have a natural system "N" which has a Formalism (model) we will designate as "F"..." However, in the machine metaphor, one is using a human-made system (natural in that sense, or not) as a model for other "natural" systems. He, of course, felt this was inappropriate, for several reasons. The main reason has to do with a big difference between human-made systems and systems that "Nature" makes.
 
If we accept the designation that a machine is also a "natural" system; a real system in the universe, then what is it about machines that makes the use of "machine" as a model for other "natural" systems inappropriate? Is it, perhaps, that the appropriate-ness is connected to whether the natural system it is intended to model was a spontaneously self-organized system or a constructed system...? To use a constructed system as a model for a self-organized system may represent the modeling relation that does not commute. There is too much of a difference, in relational ways (or entailments) within one--- to compare it with the relational entailments in the organization of the other.
 
However, I think it is also possible that there is more going on here than just that (even though that ought to be sufficient to dispence with the machine metaphor as a model for all natural systems). Constructed systems are different in origin from ones that naturally occur as a spontaneous phenomenon.  I think that constructed systems, whether they are constructed by humans or beavers or hermit crabs, are not fully entailed systems but are chimerical add-ons to the systems that created them. All tools, technologies, or other constructions are of this nature, and cannot be divorced from their relation to the system which constructed them without losing essential information. In fact, I would argue that such a system could not be understood very well at all without including the relational information, which utilizes Final Causation in a prominent way.
 
In the talk I gave at Asilomar last summer, I used the example of a violin (and bow) as a system that could not be analyzed usefully via a reductionist mode and/or the machine metaphor. No amount of analytical study of the violin and bow is going to tell us anything about what a violin is for-- or what it can do when played by a skilled musician. In fact, I posit that all human constructed systems have the "stench" of human entailment patterns all over them and this is precisely what has muddied the scientific waters: We try in science to divorce the human-ness from the machine metaphor and it is not possible.
 
Judith
 
From: Tim Gwinn
To: ***
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2005 6:06 PM
Subject: Re: Humans and nature


JohnM,

I think the term 'natural' (as in "naturally occurring") often carries a connotation derived from the first definition of 'nature' in Webster's Dictionary: "1. the material world, esp. as surrounding humankind and existing independently of human activities.". Thus, 'natural' can imply: "independent of human activity". This connotation is commonly used not only with regard to machines not being 'natural', but also to things like ecosystems, in the sense that the presence of humans is sometimes considered to alter or harm some otherwise 'natural' ecosystem.

Another definition of 'nature' encompasses all the material world, including humans. With that definition, machines are thereby products of 'natural' activity and so are "naturally occurring", as would anything else in the universe.

It depends on the definition used at the time. I think Judith clearly meant the former definition.

Regards,
Tim