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Re: Robert Rosen's working notes...



Rosen's discussion about the conditioned reflex brings to mind an earlier discussion between Steve and Judith about the possible evolutionary meaning to the correlation between the human female menstrual cycle and the phases of the moon. Just as Rosen mentions that fractionating the conditioned response from the specific conditioning (i.e., the encoding/decoding) leads to a loss of information, and therefore, "alternative histories"; I think that this menstrual/moon correlation, fractionated from its evolutionary context, suffers a loss of information and likewise becomes open to "alternative histories".  I would say this is what makes speculation about the specific causal role (if any) of this correlation very difficult, and the answers tend to be little more than "just so stories".
 
In the evolutionary case, what are the encoding and decoding equivalents? I think the encoding would be the correlation genotype which is propagated generationally, and the decoding would be the actual adaptive success rate of the phenotype (of that correlation genotype) in the context of its contemporary environments and parameters. Knowing only the correlation, we can postulate a myriad of encodings/decodings, which also means postulating the accompanying contemporary parameters and environments for each such encoding/decoding. But it is very difficult, if not impossible, to prove which set of postulates is the historically correct set.
 
I tend to think of this situation as metaphorically akin to a path-dependent process in mechanics, where if we are given only the initial state and final state, we have insufficient information to determine the actual path taken. It requires some extra information to make that determination. Perhaps, for example, we are given how much work was done in moving a mass from some initial point to some final point, and therefore we can limit the set of possible paths to just some set of paths which satisfy the extra information given to us by the amount of work, but it is still inadequate to select the actual path taken. Adding more pieces of information, we can continue to whittle down the size of the set of possible paths, perhaps eventually arriving at a set with only one member - the one answer we are looking for. But where do these additional pieces of information, like 'amount of work', come from? Unless the actual occurrence is measured or some kind of residual effects from the occurrence let us extract such information after-the-fact, these pieces of information have to be postulated. Once again, it is difficult, if not impossible, to prove which set of postulates will be the historically correct set.
 
This also leads me to agree with the idea proposed in one of Rosen's question: realization problems are generally ill-posed. To me, this result can be viewed on the one hand as a hindrance for creating simple step-by-step methods for realization, and on the other hand as suggestive of the multiplicity of possible ways in which Nature can generate realizations.
 
Regards
Tim
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: ROSEN Forum [mailto:***On Behalf Of Judith Rosen
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 4:44 PM
To: ***
Subject: Re: Robert Rosen's working notes...


James Rose wrote: Finally published words are done to please the audience to a great  degree.  Working notes are the person's alone and a direct vision of the exploration in all its subtlety, hardship, and beauty.

Beautifully written post, Jamie. You talked me into it:
 
Robert Rosen wrote:
"Some Thoughts on Returning from Trip [dated 1/7/94]...
 
There were two thoughts I remember, which are worthy of further development.
 
FIRST was the whole complex of ideas surrounding the CONDITIONED REFLEX and its relations with modelling relations, and particularly with encoding/decoding arrows. And hence, the establishment of relations between language and its referents.
 
SECOND was in connection with differential equations, and boundary/initial conditions to determine specific solutions (fix the "constants of integration" in general solutions) and using these "initial/boundary conditions" as information in systems driven by information. More specifically, it had to do with regarding such differential equations as constraints, and then, as in closed systems, treating the highest derivative (e.g. "acceleration") as "force" (efficient cause) expressed as a function of state (material cause or initial state). Remember that this last, making force a function of phase, expresses a "Newtonian" rather than a "Machian" view.
 
In connection with the FIRST, I originally wanted to show that a modelling diagram constituted a non-fractionable system. Specifically, fractionating the language away from its referents (or the referents away from the language) kills the modelling relation irreversibly, and at the same time creates all kinds of artifacts, in great profusion, and on both sides.
 
SO LET ME GO AT THE CONDITIONED REFLEX FIRST.
 
Well, you have to start from a reflex. Pavlov started with stimulus (e.g. food) and a wired-in response (salivation), which he apparently thought of in causal terms. The stimulus is a sufficient condition to the response. The response is like a bioassay of the stimulus?!
 
Conditioning involves generating the response via an unrelated stimulus (a bell). This was regarded as an instance of learning, performing an induction on an association of the unconditioned stimulus (food) with the neutral bell. I WANT TO THINK OF IT, RATHER, AS THE ASSOCIATION OF A WORD WITH A REFERENT. Indeed, conditioning makes the bell a synonym for the food, like the Einsteinian "hat check to the hat". Likewise, I can think of the bell as a PREDICTOR for the food. Anyway, there is a DICTIONARY involved here, almost like translating one language into another. YES! THAT SEEMS TO BE THE APPLICABLE METAPHOR.
 
Indeed, in learning a new language (a new vocabulary, a new grammar) you learn a new word (here the bell) in the new language to correspond to the old word (e.g. something about the food, an adjective for the food) which you knew in the original language. The food itself, the stimulus, is the referent of both words, and is what creates the synonymy between them.
 
I'M NOW LOOKING AT BOTH SIDES OF A MODELLING RELATION AS AN OLD LANGUAGE AND A NEW ONE, BEING PUT INTO CONGRUENCE (SYNONYMY). THIS "PUTTING INTO CONGRUENCE" IS THE CONDITIONING. THE ENCODING/DECODING ARROWS CONSTITUTE THE "CONDITIONING" ITSELF.
 
So now, the question is: WHAT HAPPENS WHEN I ATTEMPT TO FRACTIONATE, OR REDUCE, SUCH A SITUATION? What do I irretrievably lose, and what artifacts do I create?
 
I said earlier that both sides of a modelling relation are, separately, adjectives of a larger situation. When I fractionate, I lost the larger situation. One of the artifacts I create by such a fractionation is: I create alternative histories. Let me try to explain this further. If I don't know the history which created a conditioned reflex, I have no way of telling a conditioned reflex from an "unconditioned" or "real" reflex. I might presume the salivation response to the bell is exactly the same as the salivation response to the food. In other words, there is not enough "information" in a reflex itself to discriminate the one from the other. The "real" history is lost, and unreal new ones are created. I HAVE TO THINK MORE ABOUT THIS.
 
For one thing, if the conditioning corresponds to encoding/decoding arrows, fractionating the two sides of a dictionary (e.g. a modelling relation) apart precisely lose these arrows. IN SUCH TERMS, FRACTIONATION SERVES TO "UNCONDITION" THE REFLEX AGAIN. IT SERVES TO WIPE OUT THE HISTORY. THIS IS PRECISELY THE "INFORMATION" IT LOSES.
 
Maybe that is precisely why these encoding/decoding arrows look unentailed; why they look arbitrary, and hence need to be separately posited. MAYBE THIS IS WHERE WE COME TO NEED REALIZATIONS, WHICH IN EFFECT RECONSTRUCT ONE SIDE OF A MODELLING DIAGRAM FROM THE OTHER. OR MORE PRECISELY: WHICH RECONSTRUCT THE REST OF A SYSTEM FROM A FRACTION!!?? AND WHY THIS CAN GENERALLY BE DONE IN MANY WAYS, IF IT CAN BE DONE AT ALL??!! (NOTE: DOES THIS LAST REMARK ASSERT THAT REALIZATION PROBLEMS ARE GENERALLY ILL-POSED???).
 
So this line of inquiry is beginning to touch on everything!?
 
IT MAY BE WORTH RE-EMPHASIZING HERE WHAT I SAID ABOVE, THAT YOU REQUIRE A "REAL" REFLEX TO EVEN BEGIN TALKING ABOUT CONDITIONING. ID ON'T EVEN BEGIN TO TALK ABOUT WHERE THAT FIRST ("REAL") REFLEX COMES FROM. NOR CAN I EVEN BEGIN TO ADDRESS THE "ORIGIN" OF THAT REFLEX IN THE SAME TERMS I TALK ABOUT THE ORIGIN OF THE CONDITIONED ONE. Likewise, I can't talk about the "origin" of a first language in the same sense I talk about learning a new one.
 
Okay, time to sum up. I have concluded that conditioning is like learning a new language. I create a synonymy between my owl language and a new one, by attaching a word in the new language to the same referent already attached to a word in the old. Each language, by itself, is a separable fraction, where the fractionation amounts to the erasure of the encoding/decoding arrows, and indeed, the common referent, which makes words in the two languages synonymous. NOTICE that by removing referents, I HAVE ONLY SYNTAX LEFT IN THE FRACTIONATED LANGUAGES. This observation may be crucial in itself; THE FRACTIONATION LOSES ME THE SEMANTICS.
***
 
The "evolution of science is from syntax to semantics.From physics to biology. From facts to meanings. From experiment to theory.
 
Hence there is always conflict between an early stage of science and the later stages of the same science. Between the present and the future. The "paradigm shifts".
 
Semantics requires (external) referents. Models and anticipation?
 
As science gets t9o be about more and more things, referents, it gets more and more semantic. More and more surrogacies. At the same time, fewer and fewer reductions.
 
What is the bearing of innate vs. acquired? Can we say innate = syntax? AT THE EARLIEST STAGES OF SCIENCE, EVERYTHING IS INNATE? SYNTACTIC?
 
MAYBE TAKE EVERYTHING BACK TO NATURAL LAW??!!
 
I must say such things without getting too technical.
 
Is e.g. the Hamiltonian mechano-optical analogy like a conditioned reflex? Just a dictionary? An assertion of synonymies (surrogacies)? Hmmm.
 
The Unified Field is reductionistic, syntactic. Like a Leibnizean "characteristica universalis". IT CAN ONLY WORK IF EVERYTHING IS INNATE.
 
Maybe a good example of such evolution in science is equilibrium vs. steady state. Or unforced vs. forced; or autonomous vs. non-autonomous. IS THERE ANYTHING INNATE TO A BELL, SAY, WHICH INDICATES IT MEANS FOOD? ANYTHING IN THE EXTERNAL WORLD WHICH CONVEYS SUCH MEANING? SUCH SEMANTICS? If you look for such a fractionation, you don't find it, because of the limits of fractionation!
***
 
In causal terms, why does an animal eat, anyway?
 
The obvious answer is that food relieves hunger. But "eating" is a verb. A behavior. It should not be an effect. Rather, like any behavior, it should be an efficient cause of some other effect.
 
Indeed, why does an organism follow a gradient, or exhibit any other anticipatory behavior?
 
If a behavior is like a mapping, then causing a behavior is itself a behavior; another mapping, whose "output" is itself a mapping. THIS CAN BE INNATE, OR ITSELF ACQUIRED. Hmmm. This is getting (M,R)-like, even here.
 
Indeed, M is a behavior, a mapping from inputs to outputs. R is a generator of behavior; another mapping.
 
The only "acquired" thing in an (M,R)-system comes from the environmental inputs; what the mappings in M process. As I showed long ago, these can show up in the repair maps. BUT NOT IN THE REPLICATION MAPS. As I recall, that is forbidden by a requirement like [mathematical symbol that looks like a small "g" with a cap over it^, to the power of -1] exist.
***
 
Wait a minute. In Pavlovian conditioning, the bell only makes the dog salivate. It doesn't relieve its hunger the way food does. IT IS THUS NOT A SURROGATE FOR FOOD IN THAT SENSE.
 
If I want to analogize conditioning to Placebo effect, feeling better after the doctor gives you a pill is more like satisfying hunger (a subjectivity; a feeling) than it is like just salivating. SALIVATION IS AN "OBJECTIVE" SIGN; PLACEBO EFFECT IS JUST TESTIMONY. IT IS SUBJECTIVE.
 
Further: the dog has to be hungry (a subjective state) before it will salivate at the smell of food. It is not conditionable, then, if it always feels full. Thus, the original unconditioned reflex is a measure of the subjective state of hunger. "How hungry" a dog is can thus be measured by how much it salivates at (a) food in the unconditioned dog, and (b) the sound of the bell in the conditioned one. (Bell now is conditioned to be a surrogate for food later; not for food now). Maybe satiety is also measured objectively by "time from preceding feeding".
 
Eating to relieve hunger is INNATE? Or acquired? Likewise: taking a pill to relieve pain is acquired; learned. There is also an (innate?) specificity as to what "food" is. A dog will not salivate at grass.
 
I think these things are important. It is important that conditioning to a bell will not relieve hunger; it will NOT be a surrogate for food in that sense. IT IS ONLY A PREDICTOR FOR FOOD. The physiological ("objective") salivation is like a tropistic response; like climbing a gradient of light or heat, or being in an environment where the day is shortening. Moving in the gradient is only a PREDICTOR for something "objective"; something IN THE FUTURE.
 
SOMETHING WHICH CAN GET GENOCOPIED.
***
 
ISN'T PART OF "OBJECTIVITY" TIED UP WITH THE IDEA THAT YOU CAN DO A "CONTROL"? HENCE, THE IDEA OF THE CONTROL IS REGARDED AS AN ESSENTIAL PART OF WHAT IS SCIENTIFIC??
 
THE IDEA OF A "CONTROL" IS ROUGHLY AS FOLLOWS. IF I HAVE "CAUSES" x, y, z, ,...OF AN EFFECT E, AND I JUST VARY ONE (say replace x by x', and keep y, z,... fixed), AND THE EFFECT E DOESN'T HAPPEN,
 
NO WAIT. IT'S SUBTLER THAN THIS. IF THE EFFECT E ONLY HAPPENS WITH x', AND NOT WITH x, WHEN EVERYTHING ELSE IS HELD FIXED, THEN x' IS A CAUSE OF E . THUS, TO DEMONSTRATE THAT A PARTICULAR ANTIBIOTIC, SAY, CURES A DISEASE, YOU HAVE TO DO CONTROLS OF THIS KIND. KEEP EVERYTHING FIXED, AND JUST VARY WHETHER YOU GIVE THE THERAPY OR NOT.
 
DOUBLE-BLINDS ARE ALSO NECESSARY.
 
SO JUST TAKING A PILL AND GETTING CURED IS NOT OBJECTIVE.
 
DO YOU EVEN DO CONTROLS IN MATHEMATICS???"
***
 
Well, that's enough for today, I think!
 
Judith