Re: Anticipatory Systems

[Howard Pattee <***>]

Tim,

I will cease discussing Rosen's opinions of other scientist's motives and 
models, fair or not. I can see that it is not an acceptable topic for your 
list.

With regard to Rosen's definitions of simple and complex, I believe I grasp 
the basic distinction, but it appears to me to depend on an analytic 
argument. That is, the logic itself does not appear to be dependent on any 
observable behavior. If it follows entirely from the definitions of formal 
(non-material) systems, recursion, mechanism, efficient cause, etc. it 
cannot be empirically falsified. In that case I understand why there is no 
continuous transition from simple to complex.

My problem then is: How do you identify a real living cell that Rosen calls 
a member of the class of material realizations closed to efficient 
causation? Where do the non-formal synthetic elements enter, and how can 
you be sure that there is not some continuous transition possible for real 
or artificial material constructions of living cells?

Howard

At 03:10 PM 2/3/05 -0500, you wrote:
> Howard,
>
> The distinction between simple systems and complex ones are not a matter of
> degrees of the same type, it is a discontinuous transition. You cannpt get
> to a complex system by producing simple sytems which more and more mimic the
> behavior of complex ones.You seem to still not grasp the basic distinction
> between simple systems and complex ones.
>
> Tim