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Jack Park wrote:
Consider this. You have a small tribe right here. To what extent can the
interactions and other relations associated with this tribe be modeled
with Rosennean thinking? Articulate a recipe for doing that and you've
got an enormously useful first cut at a cookbook.
The tricky thing with applying Rosennean concepts to internet
informational flow is that communication is all semantics, but computation is
all syntax. Programming is a completely different activity than
using/manipulating software. I use the internet all the time and I use it in a
purely semantic way. I've seen many connections/patterns and potential
applications of my father's work in this realm, but I'm not so sure that it
would be of any help to you, because what you want to achieve is at the
programming end, isn't it? Zeros and ones just don't "compute" in my head-- it
makes no sense to me. I'm beginning to wonder if what you're looking at is
actually a foundational problem with digitalization. You may have run up against
the limits of the syntactic medium. If so, what are the options? What does that
problem require?
Judith
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 11:52
PM
Subject: Re: [ROSEN] Rosennean
"Cookbook"
Yabut...
I don't want to sound like a complainer, but,
dammit Tim, this field is
*never* going to mature to the point of the kind
of toolkit of
approaches I asked for unless some people who have used it
begin to
explain how they used it. Right now, this list is focussing on
the
nity-grity of this or that aspect of some or other detail of this or
that facet of ..., and few contributors, if any, are suggesting, per
your own request, how the sayings of Doctor Rosen apply to this or
that... (sorry for the outburst -- my keyboard made me do it).
I
fully agree that the threads on this list are enormously valuable. At
the
same time, I salute your quest to have contributors tie the science
they
discuss to relational modeling.
Consider this. Google
mereotopology. I don't know what you get when you
scan the hits
there, but I get that the remnants of the AI camp, those
who use
ontologies to model various universes of discourse, are creeping
in the
back door to relational modeling. Barry Smith, one of the prime
contributors to that literature, is applying the edges of relational
modeling to medical informatics. To what extent can that literature
serve as a kind of "tie that binds" Rosennean thinking to existing
practicioners in parallel fields?
Consider this. You have a small
tribe right here. To what extent can the
interactions and other relations
associated with this tribe be modeled
with Rosennean thinking?
Articulate a recipe for doing that and you've
got an enormously useful
first cut at a cookbook.
Last EURO for the
day.
Cheers,
Jack
Tim Gwinn wrote:
> Jack,
>
>
I agree: I don't think you are alone in hoping for a cookbook. I'm not
sure
> what Judith's view is, but speaking for myself, I feel the field
is not yet
> close to being developed to the point of the kind of
toolkit of approaches
> for engineers that you mention. I wonder whether
we even have enough
> knowledge to have a taxonomy of complex systems
that could be used for
> sorting out what kinds of tools work best for
some particular class of
> complex systems for some particular kind of
problems. I feel like its all
> largely still pioneer territory.
>
> At this point, I think its a matter of posing the specific problem
or
> question, seeing if any the existing tools are adequate or
appropriate, and
> if not, then having to do the pioneer work of
devising new tools and
> approaches.
>
> Regards,
>
Tim
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From:
ROSEN Forum [mailto:*** Behalf Of
Jack
>>Park
>>Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 6:51
PM
>>To: ***
>>Subject:
Re: Rosennean
"Cookbook"
>>
>>
>>Tim,
>>
>>It
seems to me that there are several aspects to a good cookbook
that
>>need articulation. One is the tutorial side that shows where
various
>>kinds of analytics are valuable. The next is the "recipes"
for
>>application.
>>
>>But, I think, it is larger
than that. Any systems modeling in the large
>>calls for some sort of
framework that guides entry into the analytics
>>themselves.
Engineers were trained: "when you see this problem class,
>>apply
that methodology." Sure, doing science is bound to be
more
>>complex and unyielding to simplification, and I'm not asking
for that.
>>But, Judith and others have mentioned, here and
elsewhere, a Rosennean
>>way of "doing science." A proper cookbook
would include such guidance.
>>
>>At the same time, I repeat
my "where's the beef" sentiment. Aging,
>>excitation and inhibition,
enzyme-substrate recognition, those sorts of
>>things are all
important. But, there are large problems that I suspect
>>this
methodology can be applied to, and those are the kinds of
problems
>>that large segments of the population would best be served
by bringing
>>Rosennean analytics to rather soon. Recall that
Rashevsky was really
>>interested in modeling traffic flows. Sounds
lame? I don't think so.
>>That's a whole class of problems that would
serve, by way of analogy, to
>>other
problems.
>>
>>Just a few thoughts for the time
being.
>>I'm sure I'm not alone in a quest for a
cookbook.
>>
>>Jack
>
>
>
>
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