Re: speed and specificity of enzymes

[Jerry Zhu <***>]

I said that 2nd order autopoietic systems not being
able to frozen. Any living systems without a nervouse
system is first order autopoietic. 

I am not aware of any instances that revive a frozen
2nd order autopoietic systems such as a mosquito or a
roach that are small enought to be frozen instantly.

Goto your yard to get a few grasses and freeze them.
My bet is that you can revive them but never a
mosquito no matter how samll they are.

I have discussed with two biology professors who told
me examples of freezing unicelled organisms and the
reason we can not freeze a human yet is because we can
not freeze it instantly. But I do not argue with them.

rotifera is 1st order autopoietic system albeit its
multicellular form but not evolved with a nervous
system yet. Its  behavior is no different from a
flagellar.

Jerry 


--- Steve Johnson <***> wrote:

> I'm confused. I'm pretty sure that it is possible to
> freeze and revive lower level organisms (e.g.
> rotifera). Am I wrong?
> 
> - Steve  
> 
> --- Judith Rosen <***> wrote:
> 
> > Jerry Zhu wrote: we can freeze a bacteria without
> > killing it but we can never be able to freeze a
> > organism with a nervous system since the velocity
> > measurement is lost.
> > 
> > That's fascinating! If it's true, I wonder if we
> > should tell all those 
> > companies that offer to cryogenically freeze your
> > loved one, in the 
> > hopes that one day, when there's a cure for
> whatever
> > disease that 
> > person died from, they can thaw the body out
> > and.....
> > 
> > I think their logic kind of peters out at this
> > point. They presume a 
> > whole lot of stuff besides a cure for the disease.
> > 
> > I have a question, though... what about
> > multicellular plants? What is 
> > their speed and specificity situation?
> > 
> > Judith
> >   ----- Original Message ----- 
> >   From: Jerry Zhu
> >   To: ***
> >   Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 10:38 AM
> >   Subject: [ROSEN] speed and specificity of
> enzymes
> > 
> > 
> >   The positional measurement is only for 1st order
> >   autopoiesis, unicellular organism. For 2nd order
> > or
> >   multicellular organization with a nervous
> system,
> > the
> >   measurement is not only in position but also in
> >   velocity. Therefore we can freeze a bacteria
> > without
> >   killing it but we can never be able to freeze a
> >   organism with a nervous system since the
> velocity
> >   measurement is lost.
> > 
> >   Jerry
> > 
> > 
> >   --- Judith Rosen <***>
> > wrote:
> > 
> >   > HP and JZ wrote: "The speed and specificity of
> >   > enzymes is ______..."
> >   >
> >   > Perhaps they are; I'm willing to believe that
> >   > between the two of you,
> >   > the truth is somewhere in there; about the
> speed
> > and
> >   > specificity of
> >   > enzymes... But while this may help in applied
> >   > sciences (like
> >   > pharmacology) the questions that comes to my
> > mind
> >   > are things like; Why
> >   > do enzymes exist? In natural systems, they're
> > made
> >   > by living
> >   > organisms, are they not? These are substances
> > which
> >   > are capable of
> >   > breaking apart molecules and rearranging atoms
> > with
> >   > other atoms into
> >   > new kinds of molecules-- in a particular way--
> > all
> >   > without being
> >   > changed, themselves, if memory serves...
> Enzymes
> > are
> >   > extraordinarily
> >   > useful in living organisms and there are
> myriad
> >   > varieties of them
> >   > because they are quite specific in which
> > molecules
> >   > each type of enzyme
> >   > can break apart and rearrange. The creation of
> >   > enzymes is specified by
> >   > the organization of the system as a whole. So,
> > it
> >   > would be the
> >   > organizational information about enzymes that
> I
> >   > would want to delve
> >   > into... if I were going into a research career
> > on
> >   > this.
> >   >
> >   > Judith
> >   >   ----- Original Message ----- 
> >   >   From: Jerry Zhu
> >   >   To: ***
> >   >   Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 9:56 PM
> >   >   Subject: Re: [ROSEN] Why four categories of
> >   > causation?
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >   --- Howard Pattee wrote:
> >   >
> >   >   > I have suggested that the speed and
> >   >   > specificity of enzymes
> >   >   > depend on the uncertainty in momenta
> induced
> > by
> >   > the
> >   >   > recognition (positional
> >   >   > measurements) of their substrates.
> >   >
> >   >   Jerry Zhu:
> >   >
> >   >   The speed and specificity of enzymes is the
> >   > statistic
> >   >   cause (hence undertermined) of the interlock
> > of
> >   >   hypercyles and the interlock of interlocks
> of
> >   >   hypercycles and the interlock of the
> > interlocks of
> >   >   interlocks of hypercycles. New interlocks
> are
> >   > formed
> >   >   from the spin offs of hypercycles and new
> >   > interlocks
> >   >   of interlocks are formed from interlock spin
> > offs.
> >   >   Hence the spin offs or divides are
> positional
> > and
> >   >   relational. Therefore the size and speed of
> >   > enzymes
> >   >   are controlled by the organizational
> > contraints of
> >   > the
> >   >   collective of embedded interlocks.
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >   __________________________________
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> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
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> 
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