Re: What is special about humans?

[John M <***>]

Hi, Jerry,
Long time since we had a discussion on the M-list...
To your beautifully organized hierarchy of dimensionality,
Why do you deny plants, bacteria, organisms (I guess: biological you mean)
the BIOLOGICAL CLOCK  that imparts IME into functions? Do plants not age? Or
do you refer only to the consciousness(!) of the bacteria, meaning "they
don't THINK in time? What DO they think in?
I couldn't help remembering the Abbott-book (~1870?) Mr Square, the 2D
scientist in their 2D world (looking down to the 1D stupids) and going to
the nuthouse because he spoke about a 3rd dimension?
Are bacteria 2D, because we are used to see them in the old fashioned
microscopes as images in the plane? Ask your organs when they get sick
whether the bacteria stay put in one plane?

You wrote:"the world we brough forth is the one we can experience."
Can 'pure' mathematicians 'experience a 387D world, or an infiniteD one, for
that matter? They 'think about such' so they 'brought it forth'.
They - as I believe - understand it (=comprehend it) - (I don't), so are
they not human, or what? BTW: what do you call "to experience it?"
are you restricting this to the 64+ senses we use (and counting) only?
How about Chalmers's 'personal experience', the Hard Problem? That is in a
'dimension of ideation', and bio-physicists have problems with it.

I can't wait for your reply, you usually have good and totally unexpected
ones.
*
To Steve J, (post copied hereunder): the first line ('Nothing'...) is OK,
but then you imply more than the indicated quantitative differences to
animals. We evolved different organs to different levels. On the 'complex'
list Val referred to his dog, 'who' anticipated the angle of the ball he
threw obliquely on a wall and ran in the changed direction to catch it.
Superior communication? Have you ever tried to communicate with a dog by
sniffing the tree-trunk he left his message on, or did you leave a message
similarly?

With best friendly Newyear's regards
John Mikes

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Zhu" <***>
To: <***>
Sent: Friday, December 31, 2004 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: What is special about humans?


> Hi Steve,
>
> Have been in the background (really enjoyed) for a
> long while and finally through some pennies to give a
> shot.
>
> I would like to approach your question from
> autopoiesis (M&V) point of view. As M&V define the
> function of nervous system as to bright forth a world,
> we can compare different kinds of species by the world
> they bring forth.  Along this line, I classify four
> kinds of species in terms of four different kinds of
> world brought forth.
>
> Plants: one dimensional
> Bacteria: two dimensional
> Organisms: three dimesional
> Humans: four dimensional with the fourth one is time.
>
> The size of the world brought forth by the species
> determines the capability of that species to
> comprehend and construct its environment.  the world
> we brough forth is the one we can experience.  We form
> hypothesis to describe worlds we can not experience.
> These worlds are outside of the four dimesional
> particular to human and could be never comprehensible.
>
>
> --- Steve Johnson <***> wrote:
>
> > In thinking about "Natural Law" I came to wonder
> > about what key factors set humans aside from other
> > animals to make the universe comprehensible to them.
> > Two possibilities come to mind:
> >
> > 1) Nothing. The difference is merely quantitative.
> > That is, human circle of understanding is larger
> > than that of a dog, which in turn is larger than
> > that of a worm and so on in an unbroken continuum.
> > For example, we have General Relativity as a model
> > of Natural phenomenon we call gravity, while the dog
> > has a model that if it catches a spherical object
> > and brings it to this creature, the creature will
> > give it a sugar cube that it enjoys. In other words,
> > humans are a better anticipatory system but only in
> > degree, not in kind.
> >
> > 2)  Human mind represents a new kind of emergence
> > different in the universe's hierarchy of structure.
> > If so, what are the factors that made this emergence
> > possible. The only one I could think of is language.
> >
> > Any opinions on this?
> >
> > - Steve
> >
> > __________________________________________________
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>
>
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