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Hi Stephen,
First off, I was unaware that "causality" is a sore topic on this
list. How can it be, when discussing Robert Rosen's work??? His work is all
about the causal pathways of systems in the universe. Causality was his main
focus, in many ways. So my feeling is; don't hesitate to ask questions about
this (or anything else). It's Tim's list, but it would surprise me if he
disagreed on this subject. In any case, you can always email me off-list with
questions, too.
It does sound to me like "operational closure" is the same as a
"closed loop of entailment".
When they say that the triggers in the external environment aren't
"causing" the behavior, what they may be saying-- if it is like my father's
view-- is that the behavior is being generated from within, rather than as a
purely reactive process. The behavior is far more than a direct cause and effect
of external environment to changes in the organism. Unlike water droplets which
freeze into crystals when the temperature drops below 32 degrees F. (a purely
reactive process) what is happening in an organism is radically different--
if the external environment is the same environment it evolved
in. That's a big if, especially in the modern world where we take
organisms out of their native environments all the time.
When organisms are in their native environments, their
behavior is consistently matched to the behavior of the environment over
time. A purely reactive mode of control in the system would not allow
this-- they would not survive. Especially plants!
If you take a tropical plant and grow it in a garden in the
Northeast, it will not behave the same way with regards to seasonal weather
triggers as plants which evolved in the Northeast. In that case, you will
have some purely reactive stuff happening; the plant will freeze in the first
cold snap and it will die. If the global climate changes radically enough, with
wildly oscillating fluctuations in temperatures, we will being to see mass
die-offs because of this very fact.
Your timing is amazing because I'm actually in the midst of writing
my paper for BioTheory right now and it's got this stuff in it. It all has
to do with what the definition and nature of an "anticipatory system" is. Have
you ever read that book of my father's? Let me know, because it will save me a
lot of typing! There are aspects to your questions which can only be answered in
those terms, but I'll wait to hear back before launching into
that.
Cheers,
Judith
Website address: http://www.rosen-enterprises.com/
My favorite discussion list (Independent-- Not part of Rosen Enterprises): ***
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