Operational Closure

[Steve Johnson <***>]

I was reading Maturano and Varela's "Tree of
Knowledge" as well as "Autopoesis and Cognition" and I
want to hear your opinions on a point that I found
confusing.

One of the key concepts in the book is "Operational
Closure". As far as I can tell this is defined as
follows: "changes in the system are determined only by
the internal structure and dynamics of the system not
by external inputs". 

They labour the point that external stimuli only
"trigger" the changes in an organism but they do not
"determine" them. The changes are determined by the
internal structure/dynamics of the system. The
external stiumulus merely "selects" one of the
possible paths for the ontogenetic drift from the
space  defined by the internal structure/dynamics.

A single cell, a multicellular organism, as well as a
society are all said to have operational closure.

At first I thought this was analogous to Rosen's
definition that organisms are closed under efficient
cause, that they are self-causing. But as I read
Maturano/Varela further I was puzzled to come across
repeated protestations that there is no causality,
that external stimuli only "trigger" but do not
"cause" behaviours (or rather internal changes whose
motor expressions we perceive as behaviour).

So my questions:

1. How are the words "trigger" and "cause" different
in this context? Do Rosen and Maturano/Varela mean
different things by the word "cause" or is there a
deeper disagreement?

2. Is "Closure Under Efficient Cause" equivalent to
"Operational Closure" and if not then what are the
differences? 

3. Rosen never extended his concept of closure to
societies or "third order structural couplings" as M/V
refer to them. (first and second order couplings being
unicellular and metacellular organism)


I know causality is a sore topic on this list so I'm
sorry if I'm adding oil to the fire. 

Thanks,

- Steve





















                
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