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Re: Consciousness and information, etc.
- From: Judith Rosen <***>
- Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 23:04:56 -0400
John M.,
This post of yours was quite thought provoking. Comments mixed in,
below:
> John M. wrote: Pan-sensitivity I substituted for the noumenon
used by
> different people for different things - called ubiquitously
'consciousness'.
> It came from my proposal from the early 90s to regard
Ccness as something
> like "acknowledgement of and response to
information" (Info in common sense
> terms). Now these concepts ('life'
included) are connected. Within the
> overall complexity it is hard to
specify partial meanings.
"Pan-sensitivity" describes something I would attribute
to the abilities of all living systems but I think consciousness is
different. "Responding to information" is something all organisms do,
even single celled organisms. My own view of the definition
of consciousness has to do with the mind. Deliberation is something that
consciousness makes possible and it goes beyond responding to information.
Consciousness includes the ability to deliberately use and
create "information".
One of the differences between living and non-living systems is
that living systems have an organization based on functions. Functions imply
putting information to use. In fact, one of the crucial definitions of
information is phenomena that means something. So, information is
"in the eye of the beholder". Life exploits opportunity, which is a functional
potential. Opportunity implies use of information. As an example; something like
ambient temperature change... isn't information in and of itself. It
becomes information when it is incorporated into the models of a plant
species. To that organism, it means something. The first frost of the
season here in New York triggers all sorts of changes in living organisms and
most of these changes are not on a conscious level. So information is what life
creates out of inanimate and all other processes in the universe. To
an ice crystal, the temperature isn't information. The freeze/melt
cycle was one of my father's examples of a simple reaction,
induced by temperature.
Again, this bears on my father's work on Anticipation. Anticipatory
systems, a term which applies to living systems, are not simply reacting but
responding-- and the response is rooted in time. It was the response by
organisms to phenomena that hadn't happened yet-- something that was still to
come, which made such an impression on my father's thinking. He often
spoke of biological systems being a marvelous classroom and
teacher.
> I was just scolded on another list by a smart sage that my rigid
rejection
> of reductionism makes me a reductionist in my holistic
exaggeration. I ask
> you
> if you happen to catch how I think, tell
it to me so I shall know it myself.
>
I think maybe I'm
beginning to understand: Having recognized your own scientific tunnel
vision of the past, it seems to me that you are trying to help others avoid even
starting down that path. Once you start, it becomes very easy to forget the
preliminary words "In Science..." in the sentence: "In science, we must make
arbitrary distinctions in order to study aspects of the universe around
us."
> Our definitions and identifications are
restricted to our present
> mindcontent and so I am suspicious of our
capability of understanding
> unlimited things.
> This is why I am
proudly vague and agnostic (sounds better than ignorant).
> Do we know
more today than 50 years ago about life etc.? Of course. What and
> how
much are we going to know 50 (or300) years hence about nature?
I agree. In a recent discussion with a group of people about the
nature of the universe being infinite, one person nodded solemnly and then said,
"Yes, of course, but... what's outside of it?"
Judith
- References:
- The Spime article, by Bruce Sterling
- Re: Spimes, Bruce Sterling, sustain vs enhance
- Re: Spimes, Bruce Sterling, sustain vs enhance
- Re: Spimes, Bruce Sterling, sustain vs enhance
- Re: Spimes, Bruce Sterling, sustain vs enhance
- Re: sustain vs enhance, radical impartiality
- Re: sustain vs enhance, radical impartiality