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Re: Spimes, Bruce Sterling, sustain vs enhance

John M,

Thanks for questions...some replies...

John M wrote:

Dear Dan,
to the 2nd cent of yout 2:
you said "enhance". For whom? in what respect"

I try to consider the "for whom" to be "life itself" or life as an
integral whole. Within this perspective a fundamental goal or
value is persistence or survival, continuation or open-ended
evolution. Within this view humans can play important roles
that aid life as an integral whole - we can best get off the
planet, can probe space, etc. etc. There are other unique
gifts, talents, contributions we can offer to life as a whole, but
this is a physical example with big implications. Eventually the
sun will burn out or an impactor will destroy Earth. So for
true persistence and open-ended evolution, life as a whole
will have to get off-Earth before such end comes.

Would you call the pollution
of the atmosphere with oxygen bt the blue-green algae an enhancement? it
made an ecosystem in which WE could evolve...
while wiping out most of the living creature that were.

I don't think so - most anerobes are still around in anerobic
micro-environs or deep areas, etc. And their roles are still
crucial and integral to life as a whole. The oxygen atmosphere
has many benefits to life as a whole, so I see it as a great
invention that benefits the whole more than it hurts a few of
the parts.

If our suicidal wisdom finally eliminates the livable conditions for homo,
it will be awfully beneficial for aother species that survive.

But I think self-destruction would be a setback for life as an integral
whole in terms of a blown chance to do something great, like
establish a viable colony off Earth with aid of fossil fuel legacy of
ecosystems past.

Is Gaia OUR keeper? You wrote extremely wise things, I would fully agree
with your ideas, but
I had a feeling that your consideration centers on humans, at least the
presently observable living kinds.

I try to center on life as an integral whole but then consider the
best possible contributions that humans could make - a kind of
natural purpose of humans as one set or type of players in the
context of open-ended evolution for all life.


We may be the pest, the cancer of the
biosphere and the sooner our lifeform(s) disappear the better for the
world.....
Who's next? Just as those kind crowling anerobs did not figure out our kinds
(dinosaurs, apes, etc.) so we have no ideas about those - maybe the
radiation resistant and frost-tolerating??? upcomings. As I wrote in my post
to Jack: I do not know.



I don't know either, but uncertainty can't be a cause for
inaction or abdicating assertions on what kind of world
we live in (objective or consensus) and what kind of world
do we want (subjective and participatory). When in doubt,
I go with the views gleaned from ecosystems as communities
with complexity, teamwork, synergy and the precautionary
principle all integral to open-ended evolution, i.e. survival of
both the many's/parts and the one/whole that is life.

Best wishes,

Dan

The best

John M
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Fiscus" <***>
To: <***>
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 11:41 AM
Subject: Re: Spimes, Bruce Sterling, sustain vs enhance




snip

This is great, but I'd like to point at that 1) our technology so far
does not enhance the environment or expand the options of those
who will follow us, in fact it does the opposit, and 2) the
"technology" of natural ecosystems does enhance the environment
and expand the options of future generations - life systems build
soils, biodiversity, beauty and over time even fossil fuels and leaves
these by-products as gifts or legacy to the future. If we want to do
what this guy suggests, I think the role model is life itself (and to a
large degree the ecosystemic organization of it) that creates what
I call a "bounty of the commons". Life does better than sustaining,
but we and our industrial, mechanical and computer culture do
worse than sustaining. On the route to enhancing, sustaining is a
point we will have to traverse through, so it is a useful milestone
and criterion to help steer by.

2cents,

Dan