----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2004 9:46
AM
Subject: Re: [ROSEN] The difference
between "Causal" and "Impredicative" loops, etc.
Dear Judith,
I did not have to go to the July ISSS to be
confused, as you put it
(continue after the quote from your
post):
----------------------------
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2004 8:06
AM
Subject: The difference between
"Causal" and "Impredicative" loops, etc.
One of the areas of confusion I'm seeing in many different
settings, including the ISSS conference I attended in July, is caused by a
difference my father specified in his use of the phrases "Causal loops" and
"Impredicative loops". The ideas are connected because they both describe
chains of entailment, which is why it gets confusing, but "Causal loops"
exist in natural complex systems whereas "Impredicative loops" exist in
formalisms (i.e., models).
(SKIP)
Judit
---------------------
Does that mean that "Causal loops" as I guess, - the unlimited
term for natural systems (unlimited) - are IMPREDICATIVE, while the
"Impredicative loops" as designated to limited models - are
called impredicative, because only those are registered which
are within the model-boundaries? Did RR want to draw the attention to the
incompleteness of the named select causality of the models by pointing
out that - indded - they are impredicative (unlimited)?
During the past years I drew appreciation from Rosen-friendly
minds several times (and lists) when explaining that "a cause" is a reduced model
view, where the total interconnectedness and its unlimited source-effects
are cut off in favor of the selected ONE - pointed out by the appropriate
model-view.
In this sense the real sense of 'impredicativity' SHOULD apply
to formalism.
John M