[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next]   [Date Index] [Thread Index] [Author Index

Re: The damage that can be done



To be honest, my feeling is that the person truly at fault here is the author of the paper you excerpted. It seems to me that the author  never bothered to do her own homework for what was apparently her Master's thesis according to the URL!! In the list of references, she does not list any from Rosen:
http://www.geog.umd.edu/gis/literature/theses/Jochen's%20students/Femke%20Reitsma/Complexity%20Masters%20thesis/References.doc
 
Instead of doing her own research, she relied upon three papers she most likely just culled by surfing the web. Two from Don M.:
http://www.people.vcu.edu/~mikuleck/rev.htm
http://www.people.vcu.edu/~mikuleck/ON%20COMPLEXITY.html
and one from Fioretti:
http://www.iiasa.ac.at/Publications/Documents/WP-96-144.pdf
 
In his first paper, Don does include a (slightly edited)  quote from FM (p. 112) of Rosen's definition of complexity at that time (1978). In the second paper, Don has a definition that is - to my mind - an attempt to combine the definitions of complexity in FM and AS. He does not ascribe his definition of complexity directly to Rosen. But then he states "Rosen spent his life refining this idea." which certainly implies that this would have been a phrasing Rosen would have agreed with. 
 
Fioretti cites AS as the reference but the definition he gives (which is not a quote) also seems to be an attempt to combine and condense the definitions from FM and AS, and yet he ascribes it to Rosen. 
 
I don't agree with Don's or Fioretti's wordings, although I understand how both are intended to convey the notion of Rosennean complexity. But to someone not familiar with Rosen already, I think they do mislead. I also note that all three papers are prior to 2000 and so they did not necessarily have the more concise definitions of complexity in Essays available to them to quote.
 
My feeling is that there are ALOT of incorrect/inadequate/misleading/etc. "definitions" of Rosennean complexity strewn across the web if one looks for them. Some seem to be misunderstandings, others are off-hand mischaracterizations, others are willful misconstructions to suit some agenda. I don't think you can ever amend that situation. Not that it justifies the errors, but in some part confusion exists also because Rosen himself rephrased and refined his definition of 'complexity' over the years, giving the world something of a moving target to try to characterize.  
 
I think that the only way to counteract incorrect definitions on the web (and elsewhere) is to prominently provide a correct one. If people are willing to read someone else's characterization of Rosennean complexity (or anything else, for that matter) on the web, and take it as if it was authoritative without checking first sources, then there is little one can do. But at least by providing an alternative - a characterization of Rosennean complexity that is in fact authoritative, then there is some chance that you'll counteract the inevitable misinformation that has, and likely always will, exist.
 
Regards,
Tim
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: ROSEN Forum [mailto:***On Behalf Of Judith Rosen
Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 10:20 AM
To: ***
Subject: The damage that can be done

As I was researching various definitions of complexity on the web, I came across something that needs to be addressed by me. The issue in the excerpt I include below, and the link to the larger document, is that another person's characterization of my father's work is what is taken to be representative of the work itself. In this particular case, it is Don Mikulecky's characterization, which is incorrect and is skewed by his own definitions of what complexity means. I was afraid this might happen, and it has.
 
What does the group suggest I do about this? I can't find a current email for the writer, who is clearly a very intelligent person and who is also on the right track in defining complexity. But there needs to be some means to redress the stupidity ascribed, unfairly, to Robert Rosen, here. It's infuriating.
 
Excerpt:
    The second definition of complexity, as relative to the observer, is that provided by Mikulecky (1999: 2), who defines complexity as ?the property of a real world system that is manifest in the inability of any one formalism being adequate to capture all its properties?.  This definition requires that we find distinctly different ways of interacting with systems, in that the formal systems of successful models are not derivable from each other (Mikulecky 1999).  Thus ?a system is complex to the extent that we have more than one distinct way of interacting with it? (Mikulecky 1995: 4). The spirit of this formalism, although ascribed to the work of Robert Rosen, can also be found in the writings of George Klir (see 1988: section 5.8).  A system is considered simple if one description is considered sufficient to describe the interactions of the system, it is complex when this fails to be true (Mikulecky 1995).  Mikulecky (1995: 7) notes that ?Rosen points out that even a stone, which seems simple to us, will be a complex system to a geologist, merely because of the myriad of ways the geologist has of interacting with the stone?.  Thus under the Newtonian paradigm the world appears complex as we discover the aspects of it that the Newtonian paradigm failed to capture (Mikulecky 1999). 

     As with Mikulecky (1995 and 1999), the third definition to be described is also based on the work of Robert Rosen, ?who argues that an observer sees a system as ?complex? when he has more then one single description of it, and these descriptions cannot be reduced to one? (Fioretti 1996: 3).  Thus according to Fioretti (1996: 4) ?a system is seen as ?complex? by its observer when, due to the presence of a self-referential loop, the observer can never compile a finite list of the behaviours the system will exhibit?.  Fioretti?s definition of complexity is specifically aimed at the social sciences.  Under Fioretti?s (1996) view the system does not possess ?complexity?, that it is not an intrinsic property of the system, rather it is the adjective that the observer attaches to it. 

Link:

 http://www.geog.umd.edu/gis/literature/theses/Jochen's%20students/Femke%20Reitsma/Complexity%20Masters%20thesis/4-.doc