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Re: GM Food & Feed Not Fit for "Man or Beast"



As Judith said, I had misgivings about this newletter. I thought it was poorly written, scattershot, heavily biased, and employed a scare-mongering kind of style. Only a few of the references are to peer-review sources; most others are references to the author's own publications or to other anti-GM sources. To me, this undermines the surety of what they report and their conclusions.
 
Having said that, I do think that many of the issues they raise are potentially quite important. Just to pick one: I think the notion of genomic "fluidity" is a very important and serious concern if what they report is true. The stability of the lineage as represented by the genomes of subsequently-reproduced systems (i.e., offspring) does not seem to be guaranteed by the stability of the initially-modified system: I suppose this means that individual system stability and evolutionary system stability show themselves to be two distinct issues/problems, and that the former does not in any way confer or entail the latter. Perhaps this problem may be related to the fact that the ontology of the transgenic system - the way in which the mutation was initially "installed" into the organism - is a distinctly different process than the ontology - the ontogenesis - of the offspring?
 
It is also not clear to me if it is known what kind of effects various environmental pressures have on the GM genomic stability. Is it the case that this genomic fluidity arises only due to issues related to internal organization, or do environmental influences (also) induce these unusual genomic instabilities in the lineage? If the latter, then this to me would mean that GM products would have an almost untenable position: there could be no assurance by any GM manufacturer that subsequent generations loosed in real-world ecosystems would conform - even generally - to their initial specifications.
 
I think GM in general is terribly unwise. Aside even from all the possible dangers GM-products may introduce, the GM route only exacerbates the trend toward planting monolithic strains of crops. If there are lessons from biology, then one is certainly that if a strain of a food is created that repels certain pests, then it also thereby creates a niche opportunity for some new pest(s) to exploit that niche. Going from planting field upon field of a single strain to planting field upon field with a single GM strain just leads us down that infinite regress inherent in mechanistic solutions to complex problems.  I tend to think that old-fashioned cross-breeding and sowing of a multiplicity of varieties and strains are far safer ways to limit massive infestations or other crop failures. The economics of this approach are an issue, but I am not convinced that it is a severe one. Whether produce are sorted after picking for sale by variety, or are sold as mixed varieties, will likely depend on the particular item and market. But I can imagine that in alot of cases the mixed varieties could actually be marketed as a premium entity: in the way that organic foods are marketed nowadays, and the idea of buying a bag of potatoes (or carrots or beans, etc.) where each potato looked identical to the others could become less appealing to consumers in the future - where uniformity becomes identified by the consumer with a product being less "natural".
 
Regards,
Tim 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: ROSEN Forum [mailto:***On Behalf Of Judith Rosen
Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 8:52 AM
To: ***
Subject: Fw: GM Food & Feed Not Fit for "Man or Beast"

Hi Folks,
 
I recently got this newsletter and thought it might be good for discussion on several points. One is the content, which directly bears on the problem of using a reductionist theoretical base to do genetic engineering. It also touches on several other of the discussions that have been conducted here on the list lately. The other big issue with this newsletter is the mode of conveying their information. I ran the idea of posting this on the list by Tim, since it's his list, and he OK'd it but expressed some dislike at their approach (perhaps he'll paraphrase his reasons here for all of you???) even though he said he thinks they may be right about what they are saying.
 
I agree with his unease, although to a lesser extent. In my view, what they have done is challenge anyone who disagrees vehemently enough to do some digging into their sources and see if they are basing this newsletter on hot air or on actual sound research and logic. If they don't have the goods, then I suggest the credibility police should break all their pencils.
 
On the content, I am already a believer in the rank stupidity involved in the huge joint effort by governments and private industry to genetically engineer food crops to make their own pesticides. Even if the concerns about fluidity of the genome didn't exist, I'd still say that genetically engineered bug-killing doesn't wash off and if it kills bugs, it can't be good for anyone to eat.
 
Anyway, I'm curious to see how the list responds to some of these issues.
 
Cheers,
Judith