Re: Robert Rosen's mind...

[Judith Rosen <***>]

> John K. wrote:

> Its an interesting question that I've thought about and discussed a bit
> with Judith. Like you say, no easy answers.  Judith is in the unusual
> position of curator and afficianado, but not likely theoretician on all
> aspects of the work (some, for sure, like the rest of us). My thoughts
> tend to be rather dry. That is, it seems to me that none of us can
> really speak about what Rosen thought, even Judith. It is a doutful
> claim to know someone's thoughts  when they are alive, so how is this
> known retrospectively?

It's a fact that there is no way anyone can ever know all of another human
being's mind. I tend to doubt whether any human being really knows all of
their own mind. Some minds are vaster than others, and my father's mind
was.... really vast. The science was only a piece of it, although he
regarded science as the main interest in a whole collection of consuming
interests. I intuitively knew that, for as long as I can remember. Somehow,
I also knew that if he ever had to choose between science and saving my
life, he would let the science go without any hesitation. That scene in the
third Indiana Jones movie, at the end, where Indiana can almost reach the
Grail, which his father has been obsessing over all his life, and his father
sees that it's either the Grail or his son's life... Dad and I had one of
those "Goosebump" moments watching that movie.

Anyway, to specifically answer John's question; the only way I know what was
in his mind is because I asked him. I flat-out asked him, all the time. It
was the only way to share this thing that he loved-- I had to understand it
in a deep way. There are no short cuts, and I couldn't read his books until
I already knew what they were talking about. I had to learn by asking
questions. You should see my copy of Anticipatory Systems, which I asked for
when it first came out in 1985, when I was 24. It has notes scribbled in all
the margins, areas highlighted, comments everywhere... The corners of
particularly meaty pages are dog-eared at the top corner, which is my way of
marking the importance (really important pages are dog-eared at the bottom
corner as well as the top corner). That way, you can see which pages are
marked when the book is closed. The inscription on the front page says, "To
my two dearest ripples in the gene pool-- Judith and Rachel" and he signed
it three ways, for posterity: Robert Rosen, Dad, and Pop. (He hated the idea
of being called "Grandpa" so I suggested the title he had used to refer to
his own father-- "Pop". He would never let us call him Pop, but it sure beat
Grampa, so Pop it was for the next generation. Rachel was his first
grandchild and they bonded heavily after she was born, in September of 1984.
She's going to be TWENTY this September. Jeez!

If my relationship with my father had stayed just a familial one, I would
likely know less about the work than I do. But we are both unconventional
personalities, in a similar way, so the fact that we developed an
unconventional friendship in my adulthood isn't really such a strange thing.
And when his health began to get dicey, which made him nervous about
traveling, he asked me to go along and be "back-up". That was the final
piece of the puzzle as far as really learning his theory went. I could hold
my own in a group of his colleagues-- which always used to surprise people
for some reason. I guess they thought his twenty-something daughter should
be bored with such "dry" topics. Some clearly didn't believe I was his
"daughter"! (In Italy, particularly.) I was often the only female in a sea
of masculine science. Not intimidated in the slightest, thank you! How could
I be? Growing up with my father's mind as my example.

So I would characterize my knowledge as "comprehensive" but that isn't the
same is knowing it all. I'm absolutely sure there were parts he kept from
me. As I got older, he slowly unbent with regards to discussing things like
his mistaken beliefs about women and sex, his dating history, adolescent
crushes, etc. But there were areas that fathers and daughters "just don't
go", even in an unconventional friendship. I know about some of these things
because I inherited ALL of his papers, not just his scientific work. There
are things that it's better if my Mom doesn't know, for example. They never
got a divorce, but they lived apart for over 20 years; ever since I got
married in 1981. However, those aspects of my father's mind revolve around
personal issues that don't impact what the list is interested in.

 Ultimately, I'm not sure how far my knowledge extends. I used to think it
was a lot less than I do now. After participating on discussion lists for
over a year now, I have discovered that I knew way more than I thought,
because it's a comparative thing. The fact that my understanding of
Rosennean Complexity Theory is in general terms, rather than the math, the
physics, the technical details, turns out to be something of an advantage. I
thought it would be a liability, so this is a nice surprise.

Judith