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Re: Art and Science



Judith,
 
Thank you for your refreshing post. It conveyed the first 'good morning' message to me. I fully understand your father and you who continues living breathing the same air as RR did.
 
Now turning to your message: It is a matter of level and certain levels , where every human being has the potential to reach if and as motivated, can not be confined to straight jackets and to living in the 'Flatland'. Especially those who have reached the fourth dimension can not  live within the boundaries of one professional field anymore be it biology, as more scientific, or engineering, as more of an applied science (my field) and technology. They go deeper to areas where all fields meet at their natural foundations, generally more etheral than material. For that matter mathematics is a good shelter. Needs provide the motivating power and without a philosopy or theory or good thinking nothing reaches to a practical action. Those who do the first thinking move beyond and do more thinking etc. They become rich and richer human beings as they move up and expand but THEY CAN NOT BALANCE THEIR CHECKBOOKS, if they do not sell their ability to create to others. Some, unfortunately, do and their findings are used by lower level, at times inhuman  applications. Those who administer them, SURELY AND WELL, BALANCE THEIR CHECKBOOKS.  
 
I guess, in our group, we are all on the way to changing the world. Our mission has no selling value nowadays. This mission has to be achieved with grace to hit the incorruptable soul by quickly bypassing through the corruptable body and mind realms. Robert Rosen is a good example to take, not necessarily a prophet willing to convert us to his ideas alone. I take his thinking/theories as a motivating power and confidence inspiring to further our thinking with courage.
 
These are my morning externations. They are very ontological as the _expression_ of my internal sensations, though they have come out as instigated by your words as its epistemology. This is another meeting point I had in mind in my earlier post: a healthy and friendly meeting of concepts of epistomology and ontology.
 
What do you think?
My best,
Ayten
Ayten
----- Original Message -----
To: ***
Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2004 7:39 PM
Subject: Art and Science

Ayten brings up an interesting subject:
 
Ayten Aydin wrote: This topic is important for me for my other study on an enquiry into seeing
where(at what level) the art and science meet, in a way where the
subjectivity and objectivity unite, where the time and space become one
entity. I wonder how much all these are relevant to RR's all encompassing philosophy?
The beginning of the essay that I referenced for the discussion about Rosennean approaches in modeling, titled "On the Philosophy of Craft" (p. 297 of Essays...) begins:
 
Robert Rosen wrote: "Medicine has been called an art and it has been called a science. Indeed, it  must possess elements of both. But primarily, it is a craft in its practice, and a technology in its aspirations. It is applied science-- primarily applied biology. In some of its aspects, it is even rather more applied technology than applied science."
 
"Science has always had philosophy associated with it; indeed, for a long time, science was called natural philosophy. The ancient Greeks were keenly interested in the way the world was put together and how it worked, and they had laid out the major alternatives in this connection (e.g. atomicity or infinite divisibility; evolution or special creation) two millennia ago. But perhaps because the Greeks affected to despise craft and considered technology to be the province of slaves, there has never been much of a philosophy of either craft or technology in general."
 
"Indeed, one would be surprised to find a work entitled "The Philosophy of the Airplane" or "The Philosophy of the Automobile," and even more so to find one entitled "The Philosophy of Automobile Repair and Maintenance." The former involve technologies; the latter is a craft. Although a medical doctors would surely resent being analogized to a repairman, there are powerful grounds for doing just this. Indeed, contemporary biological science is currently locked in the grip of a Cartesian tradition that asserts that organism IS machine-- nowadays perhaps qualified to read "molecular machine," but machine nevertheless."
 
It might interest people to know that my father was of a temperament usually associated with artists and musicians. He was intensely creative. I have found that most people tend to visualize scientists in general as techno-nerds or the natural version of a mechanical engineer. But that was not the way Robert Rosen could be described at all. He was keenly awake to all of his senses and had enormous love for music, art, a great single malt scotch or Armagnac, and incredible food. He appreciated beauty, whether it was the beauty of a sunset, a Bach fugue, a Michelangelo sculpture, a well-turned phrase, or a mountain vista. He could also see beauty in the symmetry of some complicated mathematical proof and he saw it in biology as well. The symmetry of how organisms are adapted to fit into their ecosystems, the way the organization of these systems makes such seeming miracles possible; all of that was intensely beautiful to him.
 
If he hadn't had the talent in mathematics, physics, and the more technical aspects of science, he would probably have been a scientific philosopher or a painter, or perhaps a fiction writer. But he did have that technical ability as well. He had a friend that he had known ever since Stuyvesant High School, in NYC. On one of my father's trips, we stayed at the home of this friend passing through NY. Sitting in the kitchen over breakfast, one morning, this friend told me that my father had a combination of qualities that are almost never present in the same mind. This friend was a very smart man and he knew it; he had his own lucrative technological business and made a lot of money. But he lamented that, while he could measure anything, could solve any problem that was put in front of him, could figure out how to make the machinery work better... he simply did not have the ability to come up with his own problems to solve. He didn't have the creative aspect and without it, he said, he could never change the world. "Your father," he told me (as if I didn't know this already) "is going to change the world." He had a flair for the dramatic, this guy, and was disconcerted when I just grinned and shrugged, saying, "Yeah, but he can't balance his checkbook."
 
Judith