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Re: Language expression; html vs plain text



Judith et al,
 
I don't think there is a need to retreat entirely to plaintext posts. I think there was merely a minor compatibility issue that needed to be resolved.
 
I find too much value in HTML formatting to forego it, and I think that it is entirely to be expected that here in the 21st century that humans ought to be able to expect to communicate in emails using genuine underlines, italics and bold, just like the paper books of the previous centuries.
 
Tim
 
P.S. - On further thought, Judith, if you posted those long quotes by cutting and pasting, it may be that the source from which you copied them brought with it some formatting of its own, which caused the lines not to wrap. Reformatting the text once it was inside OE should solve that.
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ROSEN Forum [mailto:***]On Behalf Of Judith
> Rosen
> Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 10:38 PM
> To: ***
> Subject: Re: Language _expression_; html vs plain text
>
>
> Hi James, Hi Everybody,
>
> This is a very modern dilemma, it seems to me! The issue of how to use
> language in a technology that distorts upon reception... It seems
> to me that
> there are actually two distinct issues here. There's the problem of
> technological distortion but there is also the issue of how to
> use language
> , in written form, to communicate thoughts, beliefs, and ideas. It's true
> that subtlety can be lost if one relies too heavily on extraneous devices,
> such as "special effects". The content of a message should always
> be first--
> as a writer, I have no respect for flashy, empty prose. When conveying
> intellectual stuff, the last thing one should do is rely on the mode to
> relay the message.
>
> Having said that, however, there is also the difference between expressing
> the primary information in a message and expressing other (secondary)
> information between the lines, as the _expression_ goes. The
> between-the-lines
> stuff is information that we would be expressing in person through tone,
> rhythm, body language, facial _expression_, etc. In writing, I know of only
> two feasible ways to do it, to which the internet boom has added a third.
>
> The first way is the one that I prefer and have used most of the
> time in my
> posts. I am a moderate when it comes to _expression_, in that I try to
> replicate on computer what I am able express in language with the
> capabilities of a pen and paper. I believe there has to be some balance
> between the original intention of the message and the mode of
> conveying the
> ideas. There's an aesthetic involved. Ideas are the province of a mind.
> Therefore, what is expressed is more than just reams of data.
> Communication
> between people requires some finesse, or at least that's what I find most
> interesting and stimulating.  I feel that, using common punctuation and
> fairly simple visual devices, one can convey a great deal of secondary
> information without having that information overtake the primary
> information
> in emphasis. The capabilities I refer to are the only ones in "rich text"
> (aka html) that I use. I don't need color and pictures and all
> those flashy
> things-- they don't exist if one is writing with a pen on paper. But the
> other devices of written language that I mentioned ARE possible
> with pen and
> ink (underlining, bold, italics, changed fonts, etc) and are the parts of
> html email format that are, in my opinion, worthy of interest.
> (Incidentally, using them isn't necessarily the same thing as overusing or
> abusing them. That's another discussion!)
>
> If one relied entirely on plain text capabilities, one would have
> to move to
> plan B: Convey all that secondary information as prose, which tends to
> present it on the same level as the main information. It's
> usually not good
> to do that because the main information is obscured. It's hidden
> amongst all
> sorts of lesser information. The message becomes almost a stream of
> consciousness kind of thing, at that point. I think most people would join
> me in my dislike of that idea. It's rare to find ANYONE else
> whose stream of
> consciousness you really want to bathe in! Secondary thoughts might be a
> delightful spice in between the lines of a conversation but become tedious
> when elevated to the same level of _expression_ as the original thoughts.
>
> Then there's the third way that the internet boom has created: Emoticons,
> plus the new uses for common written or typed symbols... I have a problem
> with most of that. From what I've seen, it's usually a case of replacing
> perfectly serviceable punctuation with different punctuation. Using a dash
> as if it is a set of quotation marks is redundant, somehow. It
> doesn't mean
> anything different than the quotation marks do. So, I'd rather use the
> correct punctuation. And the emoticons don't appeal to me--
> they're just too
> generic. In a handwritten letter, even a smiley face looks different from
> person to person. On a computer, it's more like a mask. So,
> again; if I have
> to come up with an alternative to the rich text email mode, I'd
> rather just
> not express much secondary information than go the route of the emoticon.
> (But I'm a moderate, not a purist: I have no desire to impose my aesthetic
> on anyone else's mode of _expression_. I don't mind other people using those
> internet-based expressive devices, but it's not something I'm inclined to
> add to my repertoire.)
>
> Given a choice between #2 and #3, I rebel. The result, for me, is to strip
> my ideas down to the bare bones when I have to use plain text. It's not as
> aesthetically pleasing to me and not as much fun to use. But it's
> way better
> than driving Athel nuts! Plain text it is, for list posts.
>
> Judith
>