Re: Autopoiesis ....and how it differs from Rosennean Complexity

["Judith Rosen" <***>]

I was curious about the term "Autopoiesis Theory" and did some research
based on Juan-Carlos's ideas (thank you very much for posting it!) plus a
few others of my own. It became clear right away why my father never cited
them and vice-versa: The founders of the theory consider living systems to
be basically "living machines" and describe them as closed systems (which is
how they define "autonomous"). Anyone reading my father's work knows that
this is quite opposite from his view of things. The word's derivations would
seem to make it a good possible substitute for "complexity" in some ways,
except that it's being used to describe the opposite of what my father was
using complexity to describe. If Robert Rosen had never seen the problem
with the reductionist approach, the machine metaphor, and the Cartesian
"scientific method", then Autopoiesis Theory is what he would have come up
with.

Judith
Website address: http://www.rosen-enterprises.com/
My favorite discussion list (Independent-- Not part of Rosen Enterprises):
***
----- Original Message -----
From: "Juan-Carlos Letelier" <***>
To: <***>
Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 12:49 PM
Subject: [ROSEN] Autopoiesis ....texts and references...


> hello,
>         Concerning the request of Tim Gwinn .. I think that the best place
to begin
> the odyssey to understand the many ideas found in Autopoiesis/Biology of
> Cognition is a web site.
>
>                 www.enolagaia.com
> Maintained by Dr. Randall Whitakker.  The site http://archonic.net/
> (maintained by Kent Palmer)is also a possibility......
>
> a search in google will reveal a vast (and uneven) universe devoted to
> Autopoiesis, even a "new age" music group has chooseen autopoiesis as its
> name.
>
>
> A book that should be read is BIOLOGY OF COGNITION (1980)
> (Publisher=Reidel).  This book is an academic (and dense) introduction.
The
> popular book THE TREE Of KNOWLEDGE (M&V) has been translated to 20
> languages... but it is not THE correct introductory book, it is a
> popularizing text for a wider audience.
>
> The link between Autopoiesis and (M,R) systems is obvious ...but not at
> first glance.  Rosen never cited M&V ...and viceversa
>
> Thanks,
> letelier