Re: Anticipatory behavior

["Judith Rosen" <***>]

Interesting. By these standards, humanity is dangerously close to being
maladaptive in the same way as a parasite is; we are damaging the total
system of which we are a part and on which we depend entirely. It will only
be by changing our behavior to that of a symbiosis rather than parasitism
that we will achieve health for ourselves and health for the larger system
that we are part of.

Judith
Website address: http://www.rosen-enterprises.com/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Gwinn" <***>
To: <***>
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 10:42 AM
Subject: Re: [ROSEN] Anticipatory behavior


> In AS, he did discuss parasitism to some extent - I just happened to be
> reading about it last nite, actually.
>
> "Speaking in purely biological terms, the generation of maladaptive
behavior
> in subsystems, created by a fast-acting local selection mechanism [as
> opposed to a global selection mechanism - TG] of the kind we have
described,
> results in the establishment of a *parasitic* relation between the
> subsystems and the total system.Such a relation is characterized precisely
> by the fact that what appears to be an adaptive response by the subsystem,
> according to its own local selection criterion, actually decreases the
> fitness of the total system to which the subsystem belongs." (AS p. 394)
>
> So, a parasitic relation in some sense is about adaptation occurring on a
> different timescale than the adaptation timescale of the overal (global)
> system. Cancerous cells or some viruses may be adaptive in ways that
promote
> their rapid success, but with disregard to long-term (global) effects on
the
> (host + parasite). I suppose one could say that parasites are
> "short-sighted", but that is an opinion only from the perspective of the
> global timeframe.
>
> He goes on to note that there must be some kind of balance between local
and
> global adaptation abilities. Otherwise, a complete lack of local
> adaptiveness (i.e., a fixed predictive model) may lead to an inability for
> the subsystem (e.g., a symbiote) to be flexible enough to maintain itself
as
> the overall system changes.
>
> Many of the ideas in 'Cooperation and Chimera' in EL could also be used to
> study parasitism too, I suppose. It would just mean altering some of the
> equations to reflect a one-sided preferential relationship between
> organisms, rather than a mutually beneficial one.
>
> Regards,
> Tim
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ROSEN Forum [mailto:*** Behalf Of Judith
> > Rosen
> > Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 11:18 PM
> > To: ***
> > Subject: Anticipatory behavior
> >
> >
> > I don't really know what my father would say about social
> > systems, we didn't
> > discuss them in that vein so I only have his written work to go on , the
> > same as everyone. He spent a year in the early 80's in Santa
> > Barbara working
> > at Robert Hutchins' "Center for the Study of Democratic Systems" or some
> > title close to that. He said that he compared cities to organisms in
that
> > their structure and organization  are based on function, they need raw
> > materials in order to continue in good working order, they create waste,
> > they have what compares to a metabolism, etc. But he didn't say they
were
> > "alive". It's hard to separate out what humans do based on their thought
> > process-- very sticky! I suspect that way lies innumerable booby-traps.
I
> > don't envy anyone trying to scientifically analyze such things
> > according to
> > my father's ideas of complexity.
> >
> > I think Tim's comments about social systems are probably sound, with
some
> > exhibiting what seems like anticipatory behavior (whether they really do
> > exhibit it or not is another matter) and the "mob" certainly doesn't.
> > Ecosystems and social systems alike, generally don't have the kind of
> > coherent organization that is the "womb"  for anticipatory behavior.
> > Anticipatory behavior is the hallmark of living systems, not just
complex
> > systems. Studying such things becomes very difficult-- It's sometimes
very
> > hard to sort out where one system's organization leaves off and
another's
> > begins, or what happens when two systems share parts but are distinctly
> > different systems in spite of being connected. And then there is
> > the pickle
> > of parasitic creatures whose environment or ecosystem is a living
> > organism.
> > It's way too mind-boggling for me!  I don't know if my father
> > wrote out any
> > suggestions on how to study them as opposed to the old,
> > reductionist method.
> > That's not an area I had asked him about. I was too invested in getting
my
> > mind around the basic core concepts. But if he did, you will be
> > able to find
> > it.
> >
> > Judith
> > Website address: http://www.rosen-enterprises.com/